This is my first post here on Gearslutz. I'd like to say right at the outset that I am not a professional engineer, and am very much aware of my inexperience. My graduate degrees are in piano performance, and my career centers around my university piano position and my performances and recordings (at the piano, not as engineer). That said, I have remained interested in the art of recording for many years. I first started dabbling in recording during high school, and in college and grad school I did some recording for auditions and archival type work to help pay bills. Over the years, on the other side of the mic during several CD recording sessions, I have enjoyed speaking with and learning from the talented engineers and producers I have had the pleasure to work with, all of whom graciously shared some of their knowledge of and passion for audio recording with me in various ways. Recently, in an effort to learn more about techniques and equipment, I have very much enjoyed reading a variety of threads on this forum.
I am looking forward to recording a renaissance lute and soprano duo in mid-January, and have been searching the forums for helpful bits on recording early music, plucked instruments, and lute, in particular. Although I have gleaned useful information from too many members to properly cite, of particular help have been posts by (in no particular order) MichaelPatrick, loranoyd, pkautzsch, David Spearritt, Plush, fifthcircle, d_fu, John Willett, and joelpatterson.
Although both artists have prior recordings to their credit, they have not yet recorded together as a duo. The idea for this project, primarily, is to create a CD that may be offered at their performances.
The recording venue has not yet been confirmed, but I know that it will be a fairly live space. The lutenist describes his lute as only half of his instrument, with a room’s resonance completing the instrument. The soprano's sound blooms nicely in such a space, and the duo is very comfortable working in such venues.
While the duo sounds beautifully balanced in live performance, the lutenist has expressed concern that his lute be sufficiently present in the recorded sound. In many a thread here I have read the important reminder that balance is the artists’ job; I absolutely agree with this notion, as does the lutenist. The lutenist’s concern, as I understand it, comes from experiences with previous projects, and from his opinion that most recordings of lute and soprano that he is acquainted with seem to render the lute rather pail or “brittle" in sound. Although he completed his doctorate in the studio of the oft-recorded Paul O’Dette, his favorite lute recordings, in terms of sound quality, are those of Nigel North for Naxos ( http://ift.tt/1ALR8C9 ).
With these issues in mind, I would like to use some sort of spot on the lute. I will absolutely work to find the most ideal placement for the main pair, and will make it my goal to pull all of the sound from that main pair. However, I think that the lutenist will feel more at ease if we have a spot on him, even if we don’t end up using it; if he is more at ease, he will likely play better, and I will be more at ease having, perhaps, a bit of extra security in the spot.
The main pair will be spaced Neumann KM 183s running through an Apogee Quartet into a laptop. As a starting point at which I will begin to play around with mic placement, I was planning to position the spaced pair about 8 feet from the duo, about 8 feet off the floor, and perhaps 1.5 to 2 feet apart. If you have any thoughts on this placement, I would very much appreciate your advice. Again, my ideal and goal will be to use only this spaced pair in the final sound.
I have two Cascade Vin-Jets with Lundahl transformers available to use as a spot for the lute. I am hoping that the ribbons will help attenuate any aforementioned “brittle” sounds that the lutenist is concerned about that may be more present due to the closer mic placement for the spot.
Although I hope not to use any of the spot in the final sound, if I do need to use it, a concern I have is that the lute might sound "pasted on" or sound too close relative to the voice. Does anyone have advice on mic placements and/or arrays to experiment with in this situation? I recall Plush discussing the benefits of recording voice with a stereo spot in terms of avoiding the “pasted on” effect.
A Blumlein or M/S with the ribbons would be possible, but I am also concerned about isolation for the spot itself. The soprano and lutenist both perform in a seated position (yes, the soprano sits), and they sit quite close together, which seems absolutely appropriate to the intimate genre in which they are working. However, in terms of spotting for the lute, I am too inexperienced and do not know enough to feel confident in a solution. I will experiment when the time comes, but would very much appreciate any advice you may be willing to share.
If I were to use just one of the ribbons on the lute, I think it might be possible to aim a null at the soprano and achieve some level of isolation in that way. However, I am wondering if a stereo solution might be better in order to help integrate the spot into the stereo image if we end up needing to use the spot in the final mix. I also realize that my thinking may be completely off here, and that perhaps bleed from the sound of the voice may not be all that bad. Again, wisdom from the many highly-talented, highly-experienced engineers on this forum would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for any help you may be willing to offer. Again, I submit these questions to you in all humility, fully understanding that I am at best an experienced amateur recordist, and that I have a lot to learn. My hope is to continue learning more about this field, which has long been a serious interest of mine, and which I am now, finally, having some more time to explore!
I am looking forward to recording a renaissance lute and soprano duo in mid-January, and have been searching the forums for helpful bits on recording early music, plucked instruments, and lute, in particular. Although I have gleaned useful information from too many members to properly cite, of particular help have been posts by (in no particular order) MichaelPatrick, loranoyd, pkautzsch, David Spearritt, Plush, fifthcircle, d_fu, John Willett, and joelpatterson.
Although both artists have prior recordings to their credit, they have not yet recorded together as a duo. The idea for this project, primarily, is to create a CD that may be offered at their performances.
The recording venue has not yet been confirmed, but I know that it will be a fairly live space. The lutenist describes his lute as only half of his instrument, with a room’s resonance completing the instrument. The soprano's sound blooms nicely in such a space, and the duo is very comfortable working in such venues.
While the duo sounds beautifully balanced in live performance, the lutenist has expressed concern that his lute be sufficiently present in the recorded sound. In many a thread here I have read the important reminder that balance is the artists’ job; I absolutely agree with this notion, as does the lutenist. The lutenist’s concern, as I understand it, comes from experiences with previous projects, and from his opinion that most recordings of lute and soprano that he is acquainted with seem to render the lute rather pail or “brittle" in sound. Although he completed his doctorate in the studio of the oft-recorded Paul O’Dette, his favorite lute recordings, in terms of sound quality, are those of Nigel North for Naxos ( http://ift.tt/1ALR8C9 ).
With these issues in mind, I would like to use some sort of spot on the lute. I will absolutely work to find the most ideal placement for the main pair, and will make it my goal to pull all of the sound from that main pair. However, I think that the lutenist will feel more at ease if we have a spot on him, even if we don’t end up using it; if he is more at ease, he will likely play better, and I will be more at ease having, perhaps, a bit of extra security in the spot.
The main pair will be spaced Neumann KM 183s running through an Apogee Quartet into a laptop. As a starting point at which I will begin to play around with mic placement, I was planning to position the spaced pair about 8 feet from the duo, about 8 feet off the floor, and perhaps 1.5 to 2 feet apart. If you have any thoughts on this placement, I would very much appreciate your advice. Again, my ideal and goal will be to use only this spaced pair in the final sound.
I have two Cascade Vin-Jets with Lundahl transformers available to use as a spot for the lute. I am hoping that the ribbons will help attenuate any aforementioned “brittle” sounds that the lutenist is concerned about that may be more present due to the closer mic placement for the spot.
Although I hope not to use any of the spot in the final sound, if I do need to use it, a concern I have is that the lute might sound "pasted on" or sound too close relative to the voice. Does anyone have advice on mic placements and/or arrays to experiment with in this situation? I recall Plush discussing the benefits of recording voice with a stereo spot in terms of avoiding the “pasted on” effect.
A Blumlein or M/S with the ribbons would be possible, but I am also concerned about isolation for the spot itself. The soprano and lutenist both perform in a seated position (yes, the soprano sits), and they sit quite close together, which seems absolutely appropriate to the intimate genre in which they are working. However, in terms of spotting for the lute, I am too inexperienced and do not know enough to feel confident in a solution. I will experiment when the time comes, but would very much appreciate any advice you may be willing to share.
If I were to use just one of the ribbons on the lute, I think it might be possible to aim a null at the soprano and achieve some level of isolation in that way. However, I am wondering if a stereo solution might be better in order to help integrate the spot into the stereo image if we end up needing to use the spot in the final mix. I also realize that my thinking may be completely off here, and that perhaps bleed from the sound of the voice may not be all that bad. Again, wisdom from the many highly-talented, highly-experienced engineers on this forum would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for any help you may be willing to offer. Again, I submit these questions to you in all humility, fully understanding that I am at best an experienced amateur recordist, and that I have a lot to learn. My hope is to continue learning more about this field, which has long been a serious interest of mine, and which I am now, finally, having some more time to explore!
Recording Renaissance Lute and Soprano
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